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Billiard Coach Forum • View topic - over handicapped tournaments

over handicapped tournaments

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over handicapped tournaments

Postby the pool master on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:06 pm

With all the talk about handicapped tournaments and how it is the new wave of pool and financially makes sense to tournament directors because there are way more casual players than top players (fair enough). So what is keeping someone from progressing it one step further and making it known that the tournament will be over handicapped, meaning the weaker players will mathematically have a clear advantage over the better player and make it known from the beginning. For example, 8 ball tournament - "A ranked player race to 2, Mike Fieldhammer race to 10".

The masses should flock to this tournament over any other tournament given the fact that the B/C/D players do make up a vast majority of the pool scene, and Masters/Top players will still show up and pay their entries, cause, well were F*#king idiots..
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Mike Fieldhammer on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:32 pm

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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby the pool master on Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:16 pm

lol sorry man! I didn't mean to single you out, just an example for any one of us, but lets not pretend that no matter what the handicap is the top players will not only still show up and pay whatever entry fee, but travel for it as well..
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Mike Fieldhammer on Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:50 pm

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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Josh on Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:58 pm

I think they just haven't thought of it yet. Now that you've put it out there it's only a matter of time.

Perhaps though this is the karma of billiards. For so long it's been a game of hidden information and even disinformation. A game where the few knew what top speed looked like and the many thought they understood the depths of the game. see Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect .

A game where you could walk into a bar, declare yourself the best and people would line up to knock you down. Now, you walk in and win one game and everyone cowers away declaring you a hustler. Is it because people are afraid of the challenge? Are we nostalgically looking at this with rose colored glasses? Was it really ignorant people we were fleecing and not the brave stepping up to the challenge?

A game that was about exploiting the ignorance of the masses for monetary gain. As no real traction could be made legitimately due to top players never shedding their backroom deal behavior. see Vegas Betting: http://southernbilliards.yuku.com/srepl ... koyPfmrTuo

With so little scraps for the majority of players, shady things happen way more frequently than they should. Is the fact that no legitimate system has formed around them a product of this behavior or is this behavior a product of nothing forming around them?

The reality is that the information gap is closing for those who seek it. You can watch endless HD matches with top players sharing their entire insight during the match, FOR FREE. You can read about all the systems and minutia that the old players pieced together through their whole lives in 60 minutes. You can find tournament results and league stats to form statistics on just how good you have to be to succeed. It's not a hidden benchmark, but a knowable goal now.

Players latching on to the notion that they should earn their living from players who know they aren't at that level by beating them into skill is absurd. Even though, that's how many of us have gotten to where we are now.

The real path is not to hold on to the dog eat dog mentality. It's more of the path that Japan has taken. Where you only earn money once you've reached a certain skill level. You've had to earn your way to that point. All of the money flows to the top players. Instead of the top players always trying to maintain their edge, they are required to teach and interact with the lower level players.

The lower level players focus on accomplishment and improvement. The idea that it's to earn money at that level is where everything is backwards.

I play in softball leagues. We pay money to join. We earn a trophy at the end of the year.

There is no reason pool shouldn't work like that at the lower levels. It's the very mentality of the top players trying to get paid that has lead to the system as it currently exists. And now it's coming around to bite, perhaps Karmically. Because they see pool as trying to get paid using whatever edge they can. Accomplishment has been perverted to money and the money has perverted the accomplishment of which there is very little beyond a carefully nuanced understanding of how to manipulate a handicap to your advantage.
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Tin Man on Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:33 pm

You never know what will work. Had someone pitched me the idea of building billion dollar resorts in the middle of the desert and installing rigged games that were advertised to pay back $.97 on the dollar and expected that millions of people would fly in annually and lose their savings, well, I wouldn't have believed it. So maybe you're on to something.

I think the best way to solve the unequal handicapping is to have people pay their entry fees, play for fun all day, have a pot luck, and then just raffle off prizes. I mean, if the idea is to absolutely demolish any edge skill has, what could be more fair? Personally I think handicaps should only narrow the skill gap, not eliminate it, and that better players should still win, but I'm just brainstorming.

If we did go so far as to 'overhandicap' though, let's make it interesting. Instead of the top players giving up games on the wire, for example, suppose we had an assigned 'tournament handicap implementer'. All players would race to 10, but when the better players were shooting the implementer would pull moves of various sorts. Maybe sharking the shooter, or calling a foul that didn't exist. Perhaps when the shooter was getting ready to shoot the 8 ball the implementer would casually slide the 13 ball in the way so the shooter now had to kick. Or, as the 8 ball was falling, the implementer could simply shake his head disapprovingly, catch it, and casually put it back in the jaws of the pocket and signal the opponent to begin their inning. I don't know. At least it would change the bad beat stories. Instead of "I had to give him 3 to 8 and he ran a 4 pack on me then jumped out in the last rack" it could be "I was on the hill 9-6 and running out but the implementer slid my coin back so I was suddenly losing 6-2, then when I protested he broke my cuestick and kicked me hard in the nuts". Just seems more colorful somehow.
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Sully on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:06 am

Instead of the top players complaining about handicapped tournaments,host open tournaments. At least someone is making an attempt to promote pool and it comes with a handicap. The only open tournament each year is Seco's and it is capped at 32. Lesser players don't get the opportunity to play, they get bumped out. If you don't like handicapping, host 3-4 open tournaments a year, $100.00 entry - race to 7. You can't complain if your not willing to do something about it! Some lesser players like the challenge, and I believe in paying for lessons. Just my thoughts!! Tom Sullivan
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Mike Fieldhammer on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:07 am

I would love to hear from some players rated lower than Master as to what it would take to get them to enter a non-handicapped tournament that is rich with high level players? Additionally, what are the pros and cons that contribute to your decision to enter, watch, or skip altogether?
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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Mike Fieldhammer on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:10 am

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Re: over handicapped tournaments

Postby Mike Fieldhammer on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:17 am

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